New England EPS Announced

FORWARDS (17)
Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Tom Palmer (London Wasps)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Matt Stevens (Saracens)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

BACKS (15)
Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Following very lucky to be there for me, Botha, Dowson, Johnson, Stevens, Webber, Brown, Goode, Sharples and JTH.

Quite pissed off actually.

ENGLAND SAXONS EPS (32)

FORWARDS (18)
Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Carl Fearns (Bath Rugby)
James Gaskell (Sale Sharks)
Jamie Gibson (London Irish)
Joe Gray (Harlequins)
James Haskell (London Wasps)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
David Paice (London Irish)
George Robson (Harlequins)
Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

BACKS (14)
Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby)
Miles Benjamin (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Biggs (Bath Rugby)
Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
George Lowe (Harlequins)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Rob Miller (Sale Sharks)
Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Christian Wade (London Wasps)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

I want Steffon Armitage in!

Not particularly happy with the EPS tbh.

As a London Irish fan, I was quite glad to see the back of Delon Armitage. But couldn't agree more, Steffon is so underrated!! Anyway, until he moves back to England, he won't get in either squads.

Being in France didn't stop us picking Palmer, Wilkinson and Haskell. I know they announced changes to picking overseas player, but the changes in reality make no difference. So the only thing stopping Burt from picking Steffon is his own desire to pick a Phil Dowson in the senior squad and a Calum Clarke in the Saxons.

Farirly disgusted that having had a fairly long ban for his actions Clarke gets back into an England squad without even having to prove he's playing well. And that's seperate to us ignoring the T14 player of the season.

Also no idea how Attwood and Garvey can't make the senior squad looking at our locks, to miss out on both leaves me uncertain of what words I want to use. Perhaps simply mystified.

From what I've read, maybe wrongly, is that Stefan doesn't need to be in the EPS to be picked, since he isn't part of the same contractual obligations. Rather his obligations come from the contract with the frogs.

None of them need to be in the EPS to play, save for games outside the test calendar window. And we have one of those games every other AI series.

But by not being in the squad, not doing training and learning the calls it'll make it much harder for him.

I don't kow what his deal with Toulon says as regards release to England camps. But in this instance I feel England are missing out far more than Armitage

Couldn't agree more. Going back to picking overseas players, can anyone explain how it is working? As you mentioned Palmer and Haskell in, but why? I thought it was just Aviva Prem players.

Palmer and Haskell are now Aviva Premiership players

The RFU have set forth proposals that England will now only pick players based overseas in special circumstances, but those special circumstances boil down as to whether the head coach wants to pick them.

There could be talk of it being difficult to get to see players based on France, but depending on how you travel to games in England it could well be quicker to hop on a flight to the south of France.

Possibly the French clubs are starting to get a little fed up of England, and possibly who could blame them, certainly it doesn't appear we acted well towards Stade Francais over keeping Haskell in camp.

Basically I'd much rather we worked on getting an agreement to call up players based overseas, rather than sulk and refuse to pick them when as now we so clearly need them

Well it must not be in place yet, maybe for the next season because (I know it's almost certain but) neither of them have yet to sign for Wasps.

All the RFU are doing is bribing the players, 'if you don't play club ruggers in England then you're not for England.' They're not sulking, just being clever in keeping top flight rugby in the country. If they didn't do that, the Aviva Prem would be going down the pan. Their idea works. eg - Cipriani wants to stick on an England shirt so he signs up with Sale.

Maf wrote: They're not sulking, just being clever in keeping top flight rugby in the country. If they didn't do that, the Aviva Prem would be going down the pan.

It's already down the pan. The standard has been shocking for a while, the list of player of the season just shameful, and they've been well off challenging in the HEC.

And that has little if anything to do with England players being only available to English clubs, and a lot more to do with the salary cap.

I understand what the RFU think they're doing, but honestly it just seems flat out retarded. Okay if a player goes to play in the S15 with a very differently structured season that's one thing, but if they happen to be in France, Wales or Ireland I really couldn't care less.

I think, we should do whats best for England. I agree we need to keep the prem in good shape, but Steffon was voted like the best Rugby player in France. He deserve a shot. I too would have made some different selections. I think he's too focus on young young players at the moment. Yes it's great we are giving our youth experience, but at the end of the day, two 21 years old playing centre aren't going to learn much from each other. Well IMO any way. We could always remove the wage cap But then we might get more dick heads like Dillon Armitage Even his own brother said "he's a big fish in a small pond, over here he's just a player" lol.

If that's what he said I disagree, he's not a big fish, he's just a nob who needs to grow up. The amount of times the Irish went down to 14 men because of Delon's stupidity just got beyond a joke! Maybe France will give him a chance to refocus and mature as a player might do him some good. Another note - I think Ford is going to be something very special in a few seasons time.

Well i agree with certain names and disagree with others. i don't really follow much club rugby, just internationals, mainly because of a lack of intensity in the prem, makes it boring to me, so i'm less informed than you all. but i'm not that impressed by dowson and can't wait to see the back of stevens. though looking forward to seeing wood back. dissappointed haskell isn't in the 1st team and would be interested to see armitage.. steffon that is :p thats it for the forwards.
as for the backs, i don't know that allen and sharples should be in the squad. and do think it would've been interesting to see wade and/or may. glad strettles not there anymore tbh, and i know his skill levels weren't as high as others but i still wander what potential banahan could have had.
and thats it, i'm not really interested in the saxons. oh and i don't like cipriani

No one likes "Cipriani" But if he can prove his worth and set up/score lots of tries, my opinion could change

I like Cipriani as a player, and he has a skillset none of the others have. But having a varied set of skills isn't perhaps the biggest driving force in two squads containing no Armitage, but Dowson, Fearns and Clarke just in case Croft, Wood, Waldrom, Morgan, Haskell, and Robshaw get injured (along with any possible replacements)

Also now clear Burt sees Ben Foden as his left winger of choice, with either Brown or Goode at 15.

I'd say I was annoyed, but actually I moved on from that several days back. Now I'm not sure what the word is for what I think of the squad, but it wouldn' bear repeating too often.

Quind, I think you should repeat the word!!
Having strength in depth (SiD) can only be a good thing with Cipriani but, we haven't. Danny or SiD that is.
I want to know what Hodgson is doing thoguh. He should jumping up and down in tantrum style like The Hulk with a megaphone in Burt's ear shouting "PICK ARMITAGE YOU IMBECILE!" Hodgson knows full well the quality of Armitage!

i rather foden as a fullback than wing. however i'd rather have it this way and get rid of strettle. though i don't know why he's still reluctant to pick wade. plus i hear banahan is still hoping for a comeback.
and cipriani, granted it was a long time ago, but he really didn't make much of his england chance and i hate seeing backs wearing scrum caps! especially fly halves!! just seems silly
anyone offer theirs opinions on haskell? and why you think he's only in saxons? cus aside from maybe not proving himself yet to burt i'm at a loss

Haskell is not a natural 7 and thats really the only place we have a gap. also why pick a player that nearly always warms the bench for 10 mins every game?

ahh good points. and i know robshaw isnt a natural 7 but would you consider moving or replacing him then if you think of it as a gap?

Maf wrote:Quind, I think you should repeat the word!!
Having strength in depth (SiD) can only be a good thing with Cipriani but, we haven't. Danny or SiD that is.
I want to know what Hodgson is doing thoguh. He should jumping up and down in tantrum style like The Hulk with a megaphone in Burt's ear shouting "PICK ARMITAGE YOU IMBECILE!" Hodgson knows full well the quality of Armitage!

Would I have to work with Danni Behr? (younger viewers won't have a scooby what's going on there). But it has a lot to do with pears and dolls.

And by Hodgson do you mean Catt? Else which Hodgson as Charlie has retired from England?