Debate: Training Speeds

This weeks debate is about the relative training speeds of different skills, do you think all skills are made equal when it comes to training? Do you find that some skills are just that bit more stubborn and refuse to pop while others just seem to come along more regularly?

More than likely this is all just down to our own perception of things, it's like watching a clock when time seems to slow down. The skills you are desperately wanting to pop could easily seem to take longer as opposed to the ones you aren’t so bothered about. Don't forget we have recently just had a change to training reverted back to the way it used to be, last season a players body mass index determined how fast they would train in skills such as strength and speed. This is no longer the case but I am sure there are still residual perceptions as a result of this affect on training. Other factors to acknowledge would be that skills take longer to pop as they get higher and that there are certain skills which are team trained by everyone and their friend (stamina).

After the last paragraph you may already be convinced that all skills train equally but there is nothing in the documentation to confirm or deny this. If we include in game training (IGT) into the equation the question gets a bit harder to answer, a player receives IGT based on the position he has played and the quality of his opposition. Different positions receive a relevant distribution of IGT for example you would expect a Lock to receive more jumping than a Prop for obvious reasons. With this element of IGT in mind it is highly likely that many positions share similar skills sets, it could be said that the skills that aren’t so commonly represented across all the positions are “harder” to train. It might be the case that some skills just don’t receive as much IGT as others, perhaps theres one skill that receives the least IGT of all the skills.

A special thanks to Quindecagon one of the regular BR England off-siters who suggested this weeks topic of debate to me. If you have anything you would like to be raised for debate feel free to send me a PM and I will consider all requests.

Im not so sure if some skills are harder to train, but rather how we focus and priortise our training. For example i think strength is a big thing for forwards so i hand out alot of strength training through out, thus i get alot of strength pops. Where as jumping, although i think is important, i only hand out maybe one or two sessions as it comes lower down my priorty list, so very few pops. Some one else who likes good line out may train jumping alot more and find other skill pop slower. So i voted no.

Absolutely not. You can prove this by training two players who hit the same stat at the same time on a skill that you're not team training. I'm convinced anyway

I wouldn't say that different skills are harder to train than others, but other players are harder to train than others. Perhaps I may be wrong, and maybe that's a debate for another day!

I've always thought speed was slower to train than other skills, but that's just my perception, don't have any data to back it up.

Don't you think that maybe some skills could train "easier" due to a higher amount of IGT received though Zec?

have to agree with Twinkletoes,
certain players (with very similar BMI's, CSR etc) seem to train at different speeds in the same skills.

Also, and please pardon my complete ignorance; but is it easier for a player to pop from Limited to Moderarte than it is to go from Princely to Sumptious? Or is the same ammount of training needed at each level?

ahearnepaul wrote:is it easier for a player to pop from Limited to Moderarte than it is to go from Princely to Sumptious?

Absolutely, each progressive skill level requires more training than the previous.

Sorry Harmsy, I thought I'd mentioned no IGT in my post, apparently not

With that in mind, yes, you will get the perception warped because of IGT, but I'm convinced there is no difference in speed stat-to-stat. There's so many other variables that can affect it that its easy to think there might be. This is my checklist for a controlled test:

1) trainer's level has to be the same
2) sessions have to be the same
3) skill must have started in the same place - only reliable method is having 2 players pop to a level (e.g. Decent) in the same skill, in the same week
4) No IGT
5) No TT on that skill (although if they start in the same place, this shouldn't affect the two for the test)
6) Players' age must be identical

Only after all these conditions are met will you have a fair test. And frankly finding two players who both popped at exactly the right time at exactly the right age is too much effort...

To be honest I am also pretty certain skills are all the same in that there are the same amount "points" between pops for each level of skill.

I do wonder though which skill is represented the least in terms of IGT received across the team per match. My guess would probably be jumping or kicking, though I expect every player must receive something in every skill as I have heard of props getting kicking pops from IGT lol.

Yep, everything trains in game, but I think it's something along these lines (numbers are hypothetical, just giving you an idea):

Each game the player picks up a set percentage of rating points depending on position. It's also a very modest gain, especially at low levels. If a 10k player gets 75 csr from a game, he's made 0.75% gain all told. Of that, a prop might gain:

Stamina 15%, Attack 5%, Technique 35%, Jumping 2.5%, Agility 2.5%,
Handling 10%, Defence 5%, Strength 20%, Speed 2.5%, Kicking 2.5%

Where a Fullback Might get:
Stamina 10%, Attack 10%, Technique 2.5%, Jumping 10%, Agility 10%,
Handling 10%, Defence 20%, Strength 5%, Speed 10%, Kicking 12.5%

So we're talking a 10k prop getting about 30 CSR per game due to technique, but only 3 or 4 for jumping, while a fullback might get 7 or 8 in most skills, a bit more in defence, a bit less in technique, etc.

Finally, this may be easier to express in pie charts, but it's midnight and I CBA...

I said no, but I really have no idea, I've been hiring better trainers as fast as I can throughout my playing of BR, and until I settle (with all 5s) I can't see how I could be objective on this one.

I really don't think training speeds differ for different skills. My main reason for this is Wordsworth. When I had him on 2x attack, defence and speed as well as team training on each, it took him exactly the same amount of time for each of these 3 skills to pop over the course of about 4 levels until training changed.

Slight variant on the topic, but didn't want to start another thread.

Why do people have so many more sessions training defence to have that pop at a higher speed than strength and tech? Okay they're in the right place, but without strength and tech what do they do when they're making a tackle?

Or does defence act to stop an attack being made in the first instance

I think when tackling it depends on the sort of attack being used so the equation is either; Defence + Strength or Defence + Agility.

A simple answer would just be that defence is seen as very important as is technique) but couldn't answer on behalf of other people really.

I just see a lot of players with defence much higer 13-15 say, and then even supposing they're half-backs a strength and tech rating of only 4-6. And as you say agility could be very low on some forwards.

So my question is perhaps is it better to have a really high defence rating, and low strength/tech (or agility), or to actually make the tackle would you be better training defence slightly lower and the other skills rather higher? Sor for example is 10 across the board better than 14, 6 and 6?

http://www.blackoutrugby.com/game/global.clubrooms.php#conversation=40760

See KingBlinga noting that kicking trains faster compared to other skills.

quindecagon wrote:http://www.blackoutrugby.com/game/global.clubrooms.php#conversation=40760

See KingBlinga noting that kicking trains faster compared to other skills.

Was just going to quote this!

Again it could be that it's IGT that's shifting to perception. With many roles getting a rounded distribution of training skills, and the 10 getting a skewed boost of IGT kicking training

whoever reads this and knows the answer can you tell me what the gap is when having upgraded your facillities from 2 to 3?

Level 1 - Amazing (14)
Level 2 - Superior (16)
Level 3 - Monumental (18)
Level 4 - Legendary (20)
Level 5 - Godly (21)