England Vs Italy

And so to our final home game, the one everyone thinks we should win. And no doubt there will be plenty of such comments that we can stick out any team and turn this lost over, even ignore they themselves have just beaten France.

We've just had though one very weird round of team selection, and I'd not object to a spot of sanity prevailing.

Just one further thought. Conventional wisdom is you can't win much without a solid setpiece. Well we've been under plenty of pressure in the scrum, and we've the worst lineout in this years 6N, winning just 3/4s of our own ball.

Italy didn't beat the France we did, that said we can't underestimate them.

Where to put the blame on the lineout? I don't recall poor throws really, so Parlings calls?

I think I've said elsewhere we didn't call anything to the front, possibly to save Launch some effort. But if there's a good reason in that team we didn't put Lawes at the front to throw to I'd like to know what it was.

Squad announced:

Forwards: Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (London Wasps), Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Billy Vunipola (London Wasps), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs: Chris Ashton (Saracens), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Alex Goode (Saracens), David Strettle (Saracens), Joel Tomkins (Saracens), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

So no Wade, Ashton retained. Everyone no doubt happy

will be happier when he gives wade a shot. and when he realises waldrom has nothing to bring to the team. glad to see corbs still floating around. feel bad for croft tbh

Corbs will just be there to help him feel part of it and to see the England medics. May well not keep him long, then again he will not be any use to Irish either.

Well if that is our squad then would like to see Billy in the matchday 22

Foden getting some form back yet?

Playing okay for Saints, certainly getting better. Absent of injury I can't see him being in the England squad ahead of the Argentina tour

..well and where is Italy? here you are

Props

Martin CASTROGIOVANNI (Leicester Tigers, 94 caps)
Lorenzo CITTADINI (Benetton Treviso, 19 caps)
Alberto DE MARCHI (Benetton Treviso, 7 caps)
Andrea LO CICERO (Racing-Metro Paris, 101 caps)
Michele RIZZO (Benetton Treviso, 6 caps)

Hookers

Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Benetton Treviso, 51 caps)
Davide GIAZZON (Zebre Rugby, 8 caps)

Locks

Joshua FURNO (Narbonne, 6 caps)
Quintin GELDENHUYS (Zebre Rugby, 36 caps)
Francesco MINTO (Benetton Treviso, 5 caps)
Antonio PAVANELLO (Benetton Treviso, 16 caps)

Flankers/#8

Robert BARBIERI (Benetton Treviso, 27 caps)
Mauro BERGAMASCO (Zebre Rugby, 93 caps)
Paul Edward DERBYSHIRE (Benetton Treviso, 19 caps)
Simone FAVARO (Benetton Treviso, 19 caps)
Ratu Manoa Seru VOSAWAI (Benetton Treviso, 11 caps)
Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Treviso, 72 caps)

Scrum halves

Tobias BOTES (Benetton Treviso, 11 caps)
Edoardo GORI (Benetton Treviso, 22 caps)

Flyhalves

Kristopher BURTON (Benetton Treviso, 21 caps)
Luciano ORQUERA (Zebre Rugby, 31 caps)

Backs

Tommaso BENVENUTI (Benetton Treviso, 26 caps)
Paolo BUSO (Zebre Rugby, 1 cap)
Gonzalo CANALE (La Rochelle, 80 caps)
Gonzalo GARCIA (Zebre Rugby, 26 caps)
Tommaso IANNONE (Benetton Treviso, 1 cap)
Andrea MASI (London Wasps, 75 caps)
Luke MCLEAN (Benetton Treviso, 44 caps)
Luca MORISI (Benetton Treviso, 2 caps)
Giovanbattista VENDITTI (Zebre Rugby, 12 caps)

...considering that we can't 'use' our best #8 (Parisse), our best wing (Nitoglia), our best #12 (Sgarbi) (..where our best probably will never find place even on your bench) and Castrogiovanni is out of form I think you will have an easy game

And the halfbacks are playing very badly, and Masi (whilst doing great work) is wasted at fullback.

Masi I think in the English league has been by miles the best player signed this season.

Parisse would be starting for us, and wingers aren't our hotspot. You can keep your centres though .

quind wrote:And the halfbacks are playing very badly, and Masi (whilst doing great work) is wasted at fullback.

Masi I think in the English league has been by miles the best player signed this season.

I'm a bit worried to write it down here, i don't want to reveal our secret but I think that is evident what I'm going to say...

Masi is not a fullback, in fact when we defende, Masi go to #10, our flyhalf go at wing and McLean (our #11) go at fullback where he usually play with Benetton Treviso... I think brunel does so only in order to cover better our defence.

It's a stupid idea though, as if you win the ball your supposed best play maker is hidden deep on the pitch. And you can always get at a player who doesn't want to defend, hopefully our kicking 12 will be back to make the point.

Would be good to see Billy V get a chance on the bench.

And I really hope Lawes never plays 6 ever again. He really needs to sort his tacking out. 10/10 for effort. 1/10 for effectiveness.

ashton needs to sort his game out to. would like to see wade. not sure about lancaster's idea of tuilagi on the wing. as much as i like the thought of 36 and tuilagi being on the field, 36 for the distribution and skill, barritt for the defence and gainline, with tuilagi coming on at the '50 is what i think would work best.
also morgan, farrell and billy v reported to be recovering well. sounds as though they'll be alright for italy

Tuilagi isn't a terrific player, but like George North is a physical freak. He's a player if I was playing England I 'd be happy to see on the bench so he spends less time on the pitch.

It's Barritt under pressure, everyone knows it. How long we'll have to wait for action, and loyalty to the team not the player I don't know. And this isn't easy, I can see very well why a coach would want BB

i still dont like goode as much as foden. if he would learn to be able to draw his man then pass he'd be alright, really limits his attacking game. also not the strongest tackler, not as good as foden imo. other aspects good tho

Just listened an interview with lancaster/burt/bomber/rimmer and although he said farrell was 50/50 it really sounded like he wasn't going to play him, to allow him to rest and definitely not retweak (guess he reckons it's more important he's there for Wales).

Just on the lineout. Ball won on Hartley's throws in the tournament is something like 87%, ball won on Youngs throws just 64%.

Even saying that I'd be picking Youngs, and I happen to think Hartley is still the better hooker.

What are the chances of Launch starting at 6 and Lawes at 4?

Better than Launch at 4 and Lawes at 6. But I wouldn't do it, I like the extra mobility in the tight 5 and would look to develop that. Also Launch is a kid and still learning so I'd keep it as simple for him as possible.

So statistics aren't everything, and Wade has played twice as many matches (almost), so double Ashtons numbers:

15 Matches 8
9 Tries 3
45 Points 15
3 Try assist 1
16 Kicks From Hand 19
57 Passes 27
0 Yellow cards 2
0 Red cards 0
87 Carries 45
984 Metres carried 319
19 Clean breaks 8
11 Offloads 2
37 Defenders beaten 10
52 Tackles 22
7 Missed tackles 5
1 Penalties conceded 7
16 Turnovers conceded 9

That's AV matches this season.

Team TBC but leaked as

Vunipola
Youngs
Cole
Launchbury
Parling
Haskell
Robshaw
Wood
Care
Flood
Brown
Barritt
Tuilagi
Ashton
Goode

phew, nice to see something sensible !