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Youth Academy

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Jumpinbeans
quind
Courage1989
Wingnut
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Post by Guest Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:51 am

Finished collecting data now. Have found 470 different players all promoted under the star system with varying amounts of stars used. Hope this is an interesting read

Doing a scatter graph of the CSR of a player when promoted against the number of stars used gives
https://2img.net/r/ihimg/photo/my-images/860/promotedcsr.jpg/

However because all players are not promoted on their 17th birthday this is not a fair comparison of data. Some players have had longer in the academy than others and had more training as a result. So I have estimated what CSR the players used would have been pulled at and this gives
https://2img.net/r/ihimg/photo/my-images/135/estimatedcsrwhenpulled.jpg/

The outerlines encompass all the data but I have added estimated lines that cover the majority of data as the data outside this seems to be minimal. I am guessing that most of these are down to players not fitting my assumptions i.e I assumed players would recieve training and play 1 match per week whilst in the academy.

Bringing this forward to what CSR could be achieved on a player's 17th birthday gives
https://2img.net/r/ihimg/photo/my-images/638/estimatedcsron17thbirth.jpg/

The data here looks a lot more uniform than in the other scatter graphs. The one data point above the max line was caused by a player who largely benefitted from the introduction of birthdays and spent 146 days in the academy and was promoted 1 day after his 17th birthday. There are only 112 days in a season so he has had at least 34 days more than he could have had at maximum. Unfortunately there are a few like him included in the data. If anyone is interested the player is http://www.blackoutrugby.com/game/club.squad.php#player=9956312

The equation I have used for the max amount is:

Y = (X*X)/3 + 33000*(1-5/(X+5))

The equation I have used for the min amount is:

Y = (X*X)/3 + 17000*(1-10/(X+10))

Which would give a table like this:

Stars Used___Min CSR____Mid CSR___Max CSR
10 __________ 8,533 _____ 15,283 _____ 22,033
20 _________ 11,467 _____ 19,000 _____ 26,533
30 _________ 13,050 _____ 20,818 _____ 28,586
40 _________ 14,133 _____ 22,000 _____ 29,867
50 _________ 15,000 _____ 22,917 _____ 30,833
60 _________ 15,771 _____ 23,716 _____ 31,662
70 _________ 16,508 _____ 24,471 _____ 32,433
80 _________ 17,244 _____ 25,218 _____ 33,192
90 _________ 18,000 _____ 25,982 _____ 33,963
100 ________ 18,788 _____ 26,775 _____ 34,762
110 ________ 19,617 _____ 27,608 _____ 35,599
120 ________ 20,492 _____ 28,486 _____ 36,480
130 ________ 21,419 _____ 29,415 _____ 37,411
140 ________ 22,400 _____ 30,398 _____ 38,395
150 ________ 23,438 _____ 31,436 _____ 39,435
160 ________ 24,533 _____ 32,533 _____ 40,533
170 ________ 25,689 _____ 33,690 _____ 41,690
180 ________ 26,905 _____ 34,907 _____ 42,908
190 ________ 28,183 _____ 36,185 _____ 44,187
200 ________ 29,524 _____ 37,526 _____ 45,528
210 ________ 30,927 _____ 38,930 _____ 46,933
220 ________ 32,394 _____ 40,397 _____ 48,400
230 ________ 33,925 _____ 41,928 _____ 49,931
240 ________ 35,520 _____ 43,523 _____ 51,527
250 ________ 37,179 _____ 45,183 _____ 53,186
300 ________ 46,452 _____ 54,455 _____ 62,459
350 ________ 57,361 _____ 65,365 _____ 73,369

These values should not be used as fact but just as a guide as they have been produced by my best estimates from the data I had at the time.

This evidence does show that the more stars used the more chance there is of getting a better player but a good player pulled on 20 stars can be better than a bad player pulled on 100 stars depending on luck and facilities.

On a side note as I have acces to the API I have downloaded data on all the players used and can prove that untrainables are random
https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/i/untrainables.jpg/

What conclusions do you draw from this and does it change your view on star stacking?

In answer to the last question - I think its worth spending almost all your stars on one player then maybe 30/40 on a second.

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Post by Chargrilled Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:30 pm

I would probably say 20 stars until you have 3 good 17y/o prospects being trained.

Then its most likely best to hoard as many stars as you can! And if you hoard only pull at 180+ stars to avoid dissapointment...

It seem odd though. If a nation was organised enough, they could pull a generation of 300+ star players and smash face...though your pack weights and lock heights would most likely be dire.

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Post by Raggs Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:35 pm

Nah, the latest results suggests it's very random. You're better off going with 3-5 pulls of 40-50 stars. That way you get a good selection of players, with discipline and physicals with a better chance of being good, and likely reasonably good players (still with the chance of 30k csr or more).
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Post by SammyPye Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:45 am

The graph seems to be showing that you actually get more benefit the more stars you use. If the benefit for each star when scouting decreases you'd expect the graph to go up sharply and then very slowly level off. This goes the other way......

*edit* I remembered that CSR isn't everything so you may get less benefit in terms of actual skills but just a much higher CSR. This game can be confusing sometimes!

I suppose once you've got a training system in place you could just pull one player per season. That's assuming you train each new player for the same amount of time, then you'd have a conveyor belt of players who were fully trained for 4/5 years.
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Post by Raggs Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:51 am

The graph is also very old, not taking into account all the players of today.

More stars = more chance to get a good pull, but it's not a fixed improvement, you can still get a terrible one. And especially with forwards, the physicals and discipline is more importnat, so scouting more is a better plan.
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Post by Boris Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:18 pm

Anyone able to tell me how this guy will turn out?

Lucas Harfoot
17 years old

Player ID 6429174
Plays for Junior Bletchley
Nationality England
Weight 111kg
Height 189cm
Scouted 6 Jul 2011 12:37am
Birthday Round 9, Day 6
Stars 20

Left handed, left footed, in decent form .
A collected player with reckless discipline, moderate leadership, and non-existent experience.
Energy: Fit 58% Stamina: Medium Handling: Medium
Attack: Unknown Defense: 9
Technique: Medium Strength: Unknown
Jumping: Medium Speed: 8
Agility: Unknown Kicking: Low


Last edited by Boris on Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by The Zec Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:09 pm

Ballpark figure 16-22k CSR but with that many unknowns it could be anything.
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Post by EddieBono Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:40 am

This means that as long as you invest a pretty high minimum number of stars, you will definitely get a pretty high minimum CSR player, right?

What sort of facilities and scout do you recommend to pull the best players? Is youth team training important?


Last edited by EddieBono on Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:43 am; edited 3 times in total

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Post by Raggs Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:49 am

Nope. It's always down to chance, but more stars opens up a larger range of csrs I believe, so you stand a chance of getting a monster, but still a chance of getting a nobody.

Scout lvl 3, I have lvl 2 facility and coach as a compromise for saving cash, as I only use my YA for u20s prospects, and no manager (for the same reason).
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Post by Mr Kearns Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:44 pm

I'm interested in getting a decent YA up and running and have invested in all the YA staff - currently recruiting a lv2 scout. As I only want them to use in my 1st team, do you think it's worth dropping the manager (I'm not looking for a great youth team, just individuals!).

On a seperate note, providing I win my playoffs, I'm going into div4 next season and want to know if the income rises much?
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Post by The Zec Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:49 pm

For me, the manager makes life a lot easier - I can see who to promote and who to leave in. The ones you leave in get free training in the skills you want, and the ones you don't promote get replaced with 5/8/10 star 16 y/os depending on your scout.

If you want a compromise, get a L1 manager, but you will never see all 20 reveals on every player. If you have a high turnover of youths, you need a L3 to see all of them, otherwise, a L2 will suffice. (I use L2)

Hope that helps Smile
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Post by Radiohead Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:28 am

I think differently to Zec.
If you are going to scout lots of players on 10 to 15 stars having a manager may be a good idea. I scout players with 30 to 40 stars and the rest get scouted on 0 stars. Because of this I only have 4/5 players worth pulling so I don't need to see there skill levels as I will pull them anyway. If they are useless they either go on the TM or I try to sell them. Having a manger would make no difference to this strategy it would only cost me more money.
Training in my youth team depends on what position I need more in my senior squad. Stamina, Defence and Handling are needed by everyone, the 4th session would depend on if I need a forward rather than a back or the other away round.
Strength and technique are needed more by forwards, speed and attack by backs.
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Post by Raggs Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:42 am

Why do you scout players on 0 stars? Or you scout the 4/5 on 0 stars until the next u20s season comes round? Why not just let them age out and get replaced for 10 stars free?

I will only be scouting forwards from now on, and never scout a forward on less than 20 stars (if I hit a 208cm 125kg lock, I don't want him to have only 0 stars...). My backs are all 10 stars (or will be soon), that will last for 4 seasons, then age out and be replaced by 10 stars again.
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Post by Mr Kearns Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:36 am

What I'm looking to do is what Radiohead does and just pull 4/5 players per season who I can train up to be in my main squad. I like your idea Raggs, on just leaving the academy to itself, rather than scouting them on 0 as I was before.

To choose what position you get, am I right in saying that I remove all the havier players (if I want forwards) and it will then auto generate people to replace them?

Also, when does the U20 season start? Would be nice to give it a go, once my academy is up to scratch anyway!

Hopefully I win today and I can get spending my promotion money!
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Post by Harmsy Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:01 pm

When you promote a player you will then scout a new replacement of the same type of players so a promoted front row player will generate a new front row player etc.

There is an U20 season every season but generally we aim towards the U20 WC which is held every "even" season e.g 16,18,20. For the Season 18 WC you will want to start scouting players next season R2 D1 to guarantee that they will have an appropriate birthday.

It takes a lot of dedication to produce an U20 player you must give 10 sessions a week minimum for 4 seasons and preferably give them as much game time as you can at least Monday friendlies.
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Post by Mr Kearns Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:31 pm

Thanks for the advice, I've got a 17 year old I'm training up for Croatia U20 the aim so will practise with him!
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Post by Guest Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:11 pm

Small question here...is it better to play as much LTNT games as you can in the academy? Will the players get more IGT from them?

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Post by Sadiq Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:22 pm

No, they will not get more igt but they will get more experience.

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Post by Guest Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:26 am

Deicide wrote:Small question here...is it better to play as much LTNT games as you can in the academy? Will the players get more IGT from them?
I play LTNT in all my youth games, their energy recovers faster than seniors.

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Post by Jonny Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:02 am

I don't think it recovers faster, it's just that with most people there's no junior team training so it seems like they recover faster, and also, welcome to the forums womberto!

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Post by Raggs Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:28 am

Hey Wom Very Happy Log in more often, login to the chatbox too (you may have done recently and I didn't see I guess).
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Post by Guest Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:41 pm

Cheers Jonny, I'll try to turn up more often than with the last forum.
I used to have lvl 1 youth facilities and was still ok to LTNT every game, not sure about higher training than that though.

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Post by Guest Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:44 pm

Cheers Raggs, I'll try to log on more often.

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Post by Mazzeha Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:35 pm

This is very very interesting... I think i might hoard up 300 stars, and see what happens, ive got young enough players in my squad at the moment to do it. Hmmm, good job mate, very nice of you to do this.

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Post by Pantherus Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:01 pm

With only 1 game per week the energy recovery appears faster for sure - many find their youths handle LTNT every week very manageable.
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