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Steffon Armitage ...

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Post by Mazzeha Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:42 pm

I'm a huge fan of this guy! I want him to play for England!

Stuart Lancaster said he would pick overseas players (France is hardly far) in extreme circumstances! Well guess what! Steffon is probably the best out and out 7 there is going!

Thoughts on this?

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Post by Basil Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:26 am

I agree he should be playing

Problem is that Lancaster has said that Robshaw is captain and he is not our best 6 either

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Post by Mazzeha Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:33 pm

Bring him on as impact player, Robshaw has no flair ... Which is in it's own way, his flair lol. He does all the donkey work, but Armitage ... He has attacking prowess and excellent defensive skills. I personally would play him 8 as I think B.Vunipola is a bit over rated at the moment. Or even as an impact sub!

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Post by Wingnut Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:36 pm

'his flair was that he had no flair'

sounds a bit like a tag line for johnny English reborn .....
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Post by Guest Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:29 pm

Stef knew from the beginning he wasn't getting picked if he moved to France...what does that tell you about his pride in the shirt? Has he ever actually come out and passionately said he wants a recall?

IMO the Robshaw issue is a case of grass looks greener, he has constantly performed (usually top/close to top in most stats) in the England shirt but people keep questioning him. /media need something to write about. Wink

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Post by quind Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:39 pm

I'd pick Armitage, and if we're not going to pick Armitage I'd pick Kvesic. Steff has said he wants to play for England, and on many occasions including to Lancaster, England however don't want to burn bridges with PRL though and Steff's counterpoint that moving to France has improved him isn't sufficient for the RFU to take on PRL over all this.

Robshaw is a fine player, even if not quite my cup of tea, and he can go and contest the 6 shirt with Wood and Croft.

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Post by Guest Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:49 pm

Kvesic hasn't been in form for quite a while IMO.

Re the Stef issue I still stand by the stance that he went knowing he wouldn't get a look in and if he was that bothered about playing for England he would be welcomed back with open arms by any side.

Lets face it...he's enjoying the sun and wine and cba to come back to rainy ol blighty. Maybe we should move Englands home games to Paris to help compensate? Wink

Wood over Robshaw every day at 6 and Croft over Wood (when fit) so 6 isn't going to work for him. I still don't understand why he's hated so much at 7. He's damn good.


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Post by stomalomalus Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:02 pm

The problem - with picking Armitage - is that he doesn't really solve (m)any of the problems England have.

He isn't that much better (if at all) than Robshaw, Wood or Croft, the men who he'll compete with, so the RFU see no reason to damage their relationship with PRL over something(one) who may not actually have that much of an effect.

Robshaw does a very important job for England, a job that becomes more important when you consider the lack of carrying options England have. He is the best "cleaner" around, I believe. He will mop up terrible ball and turn it into something usable. He doesn't make huge yards carrying, but he places the ball cleanly nearly every time.

I would love to see Burgess at 6 once he's adapted, though: adding that kind of carrying power to the backrow would be potent and it would instantly negate our lack of carriers.

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Post by quind Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:14 pm

I'd say Kvesic has been in form for over two years, and people who think he hasn't simply fail to understand how a team shapes the game and how that impacts the performance seen in each role, which isn't the same as the performance given in a role. At least that's what I'd say being polite.

I'd also doubt it's much quicker for Steff to get to Paris than it is to get to London, so we might as well keep playing at Twickenham for now. And I don't think Robshaw is hated, that's a very strange concept, rather it's just a feeling that (a) we can do better and largely because (b) the balance is wrong as is.

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Post by stomalomalus Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:26 pm

Jading wrote:I'd say Kvesic has been in form for over two years, and people who think he hasn't simply fail to understand how a team shapes the game and how that impacts the performance seen in each role, which isn't the same as the performance given in a role. At least that's what I'd say being polite.

I'd also doubt it's much quicker for Steff to get to Paris than it is to get to London, so we might as well keep playing at Twickenham for now. And I don't think Robshaw is hated, that's a very strange concept, rather it's just a feeling that (a) we can do better and largely because (b) the balance is wrong as is.

I wouldn't say the balance on the flanks is that wrong, tbh. With Croft fit, I think we'd have a pretty good unit there.

I would also argue that Kvesic's performances have been...lacking. He's suffered, however, from the same malaise as 12T, though, lack of concentration and silly mistakes, which makes me think it's a problem at Glos, not with the individual. Maybe that can be fixed over time.

I think Fraser is a better prospect, though: a very good player who's been unlucky with injuries recently.

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Post by Mazzeha Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:45 pm

Great to see so many views on this! And I have to admit, the fact Armitage chose to leave England to place in France ... Has had an impact on my view... But I would still play him.

Can some one please explain this PRL ?

And I wonder ... If I was in Armitage's position... Would I pick money over England? These guys don't have long careers and they do get paid a lot more abroad... Hmmm

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Post by quind Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:19 pm

PRL is the body that represents the interests of the clubs in the Aviva Premiership. The clubs want the RFU to keep in place the play at home to play for England policy as it keeps it cheaper for them to retain the top English players.

There are it should be noted good reasons to do as PRL want, it's just on balance I'd go ahead and ignore them. But the RFU do need a new EPS deal sorted with the PRL, and this is something the RFU can give PRL that doesn't have an immediate financial cost so one can see why they're happy to go along,

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Post by stomalomalus Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:10 am

Jading wrote:PRL is the body that represents the interests of the clubs in the Aviva Premiership. The clubs want the RFU to keep in place the play at home to play for England policy as it keeps it cheaper for them to retain the top English players.

There are it should be noted good reasons to do as PRL want, it's just on balance I'd go ahead and ignore them.  But the RFU do need a new EPS deal sorted with the PRL, and this is something the RFU can give PRL that doesn't have an immediate financial cost so one can see why they're happy to go along,

Plus we're talking about losing 2 players who may or may not be better than the other options...it's not as if we're in Wales' situation, whereby half our team plays abroad.


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Post by Guest Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:50 pm

Agreed with the quote that Glous might be having issues. It just seems like their squad (many of whom could make the Eng squad) don't seem to be 100% switched on.

Kvesic def hasn't been 'in form' enough to knock Robshaw off his 7 spot.

As a note previously I would have laughed at the idea of SammyB picking up union quick enough to play anything but 12/13 but from his performances in his final few games down under I'd get Lancaster to simply say 'pick a number any number, get hold of the ball and run forwards!' ...But not 7, we need a fetcher at 7...oh wait. Lol

Balance looks good to me as well (on current form the man mountain Haskell could be our carrying 6?), I'd rather draft Easter back in than bring in Armitage. I suppose that is something we can agree on- Englands cut off point for age is; 30+ years old and your in for the chop soon. Not sure I agree with that but hey ho.


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Post by Mazzeha Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:29 pm

What about Thomas Waldrom ... Personally i like him

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Post by quind Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:02 pm

Good club player, which is where he should stay.

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Post by Meeeeeeeat_ Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:49 pm

Waldrom, like Jading said, has been good for his clubs but is a deer in the headlight on the bigger stage. I don't like him.
The backrow is tough, we have a good unit, biggest trouble is we don't have the players available to put out the complete package for the backrow. Robshaw is an undeniably great leader who always puts in 100% and does many many good things that need doing for 80 mins, but isn't a turnover machine so everytime he's up against warburton or mccaw etc we hold our breath for 80 mins because they're likely to beat him at the breakdown. Kvesic on form is almost the opposite really, except he may not be as good defensively at robshaw but can still make his tackles.
Wood and croft are undeniable influences in the lineout game, and i'd say wood is another good leader defensively solid and decent getting/keeping possession, whereas croft is very good at attacking/line breaks.
Vunipola is a battering ram with decent hands. Haskell is a powerhouse but probably worse with ball in hand but better at the breakdown.
I personally don't see a 6, 7 and 8 to utilize where there aren't flaws in attacking, turnovers or being leaders

on another note, sam burgess, as much as a world class talent he is, unless maybe as an impact sub, i don't see a place for him in the starting lineup save for injuries. (same for Tuilagi). They can be rotated to rest players but in terms of putting out our best 15, assuming they are on form, 12T and burrell provide a better attacking game then tuilagi or burgess can, with one of the two on the bench to come on at 50 mins to run through weary legs.

And steffon, if we could have him i'm sure we would, but he will never play for england again.
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